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Furnituremaker
8/14/2008 7:58 AM
Mark 7: 7 - 13
..their teachings are but rules taught by men.'8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."

9And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! 10For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,'and, 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.' 11But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban' (that is, a gift devoted to God), 12then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. 13Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."

Give in obedience to the Lord' directions but don't dedicate resources to giving that are needed to support your family. Not my words but Jesus' Words, Those who teach that we must tithe before we meet the needs of our family are wrong according to scripture.
jmpjosiah
8/4/2008 10:05 AM
Yes, this is an interesting topic. I have come to the conclusion that we are to be lead by the spirit of the Law under Christ. Many people use Abraham's giving the 10% to Melkizadek as a reference to tithing not under the letter of the law but that would mean we should also be circumcised as was Abraham and offer animal Sacrifice. I also have found that in the old testament the tithe only went to the Levites once out of every three years not every year. The other years was to be used at the celebration of Tabernacles and was given to eachother and the poor and widows etc... From what I have found not even in the old testament, under the law did they practice tithing as we do now. Another concern is each will be accountable for being good stewards of what God gives us not just to give it to someone else to be good stewards for us. We are all a Holy priesthood under Christ and are all able to be lead by God to give 0% to 100% as he leads out of love for him. The vail has been rent!
penfieldjarrell
8/4/2008 12:13 AM
I, too, believe totally in tithing. Several years ago we slipped away from tithing, choosing to help our adult childern, instead. We rationized it with the thought that it was helping the needy. However, over a long weekend seeking His face, we realized how badly we were robbing God. We repented and made the commitment to give our tithe to where we were being fed spiritually. Within a week's time, my husband's salary was tripled! For those who argue we aren't under the law, tithing was instituted four hundred years before the law. God just wants us to trust Him. He will help us do much more with 90% than we ever could with 100%. One of the richest men around built his business in earth-moving equipment, and lived off of 10%, sowing 90%. God blesses obedience. If you aren't tithing, God will not rebuke the devourer, so the money will be spent on repairs, etc., somewhere down the line.
Randal
7/30/2008 9:03 PM
I just finished reading Galatians again as a part of my nightly reading with my wife. Again I am struck by the Apostle Pauls outright attack on those who insist on living under the law "Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."
I am not saying that we are not to give, but to be lead by the spirit and not dictated by the law as to how much, and where to give. I think that many in the ministry who continue to try to bring us into bondage again should take this into consideration "1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil"
LuvTruth
7/28/2008 2:14 PM
(con't from last comments). My husband could hardly believe his eyes, as he held the check in his hands. I opened another envelope, and it was a letter stating I had qualified for $600.00 stimulus check and it would be in the mail within the next few days. I got it that next week. My husband got his the following week. We were able to completely catch up on two months worth of bills. Jesus said to not forget mercy and "not leave the other undone" referring to tithing. I have prayerfully asked God to never let me "leave the tithing undone", regardless of what modern teachings are saying. His word is clear. My husband learned a valuable lesson in reference to tithing and God's faithfulness. We have not stopped tithing since.
LuvTruth
7/28/2008 2:09 PM
I wanted to share my testimony of what God did through the original article encouraging us to tithe in tough times. My husband and I have been going through serious financial issues. I had a suspicion that he was not tithing, and when I came upon "tithing in tough times", I forwarded it to him without a word. I let God speak to him through it as He wills. That was on a Saturday.
On Sunday, my husband wrote a tithe check, leaving us with $1.00 in our bank account! I was so blessed that he heard God & obeyed!
I have been through financial struggles and experienced God's faithfulness in this area, but my husband has never been through this himself, so it has been a scary trial for him.
Unless you know God personally, you will hardly believe what happened next:
I checked the mailbox that same Sunday, because I had forgotten to do it the previous day-
In the mailbox was a check for almost $900.00 from an unexpected source! We both cried and sat down and prayed with thanksgiving to God.
Charlie365
7/28/2008 11:21 AM
I've also been around others on both sides of this issue. Some go so far as to rationalize not giving with pseudo-biblical excuses, for example that the Bible says not to let "the right hand know what the left hand is doing" etc.

Funny, though, I've never known someone who actually GAVE 10% or more who was so defensive and adamant that "tithing is Old Testament". The arguments seem to come only from those who don't give or give LESS.

I've also learned that it's useless to debate the issue with them. So, rather than debate the issue, I've always tried to suggest the following ideas to challenge people.

1. If we're no longer "under law, but under grace" then shouldn't we give at least as much or MORE than those who didn't have the blessings of grace. What about "To whom much is given..."

2. And I try to leave them with this question, "When you get to heaven, do you REALLY believe you're going to say to yourself, Man, I'm sure glad I learned the truth and never gave 10% !
elderdxc
7/28/2008 11:08 AM
If you wanted to write an article entitled, "Why It's Important to Keep Grace-Giving in Tough Times," you could make good arguments. You are attempting to defend what cannot be defended Scripturally, and misusing the few NT passages that even mention the word in order to do so. The New Covenant was not in force at the time that Jesus had that exchange with the Pharisees, as you well know, so why use that in your line of argument?

As regards your supporter who felt convicted about the whole gross/net issue, tell me this, does anyone, other than self employed people, ever see their income before the Federal and state taxes are taken out? If not, then that money never cones to us, and cannot be considered to be ours for the purpose of giving.

Most importantly, grace-giving is supposed to be Spirit-led, rather than mathematically determined. If you aren't hearing from God, you have bigger problems than the percentage of income you should give.
hansbraugh
7/28/2008 9:36 AM
Wow, this seems to be a passionate topic. Could it be that flesh is warring with Spirit when people read this? It seems like there's a whole lot of conviction going on and a whole lot of fighting against it.

Honestly, most of us are fleshly and selfish. There are plenty of people in excessive debt right now and it's usually selfishness that got them there in the first place. God put a system in place that was supposed to help in this situation. It is a system that was designed to have people be THANKFUL to God first, before they started thinking about themselves. Then maybe people would be more God-minded before they started spending their money, heaping up their debt and putting themselves into bondage.

Truthfully, God's law isn't our bondage, but debt is slavery. The only way to combat our own selfishness is to be outwardly generous instead of self-centered. God's law is always meant to protect us, usually from ourselves.
chasmarv
7/26/2008 9:10 PM
The widows mite was a free will gift for use as a benevalent fund for the poor. She probability received more from the fund than she gave. These tithe twisters want
you to think this was what all should do but jesus and the widow lived under the old covenant. Jesus did not want poor people to go without sustance and in the gospels he said it
worse than an infidel for the bread winner not to provide for their family first.
ChozenGirl33
7/26/2008 5:26 AM
I have experienced life in times of tithing (both joyfully and obligatorily) and in seasons dry; all had moments of success and need. It's been awhile since I last found myself at this intersection: doubting, wondering, contemplating if I should continue with the "tithing test" when I feel like it's hit a plateau. I know the Lord loves a joyful giver, but how does He feel when I give resentfully? Is it better not to give in those times? I see the author's point of just stepping out in faith. I've even experienced that "learned" joy, but I just can't seem to get past the thoughts of extra expenses - and that feeling: if I could just use that tithe money, I could quickly wipeout that debt! I even realize that I should tithe on on gross vs. net, otherwise "Caesar" is being put before God, and I definitely don't like the conviction of knowing Caesar still gets his whether I give to God or not. Yet, the struggle continues: resentfully tithe, or only bring it to God when it's joyous?
Xizwyck
7/25/2008 2:11 PM
We often forget the role of the Spirit in our lives. In summary, Ro.8:3-4, “law was powerless to do…, God did by sending his own Son… to be a sin offering… in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.” Gal.s 5:16-25, “but if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law”. It is the fruit of the Spirit that produces in our lives righteousness of God (which is God’s character), - hence Torah fulfilled. Should we give? Yes. How much? Keep with your income (1 Cor. 16:2) and ask God for wisdom (James 1:5) and give under compulsion (2 Cor. 9:7) but cheerfully. That amount may be greater than 10% or less or a fixed amount. Regardless, the observance of Torah is not longer applicable. If you want to pay a tithe, great! But don’t be so eager to put your fellow believers under a yoke of bondage as how some Christians believed they needed to continue circumcision of the flesh.
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