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lorelib
10/13/2009 4:57 PM
Thank you Lord for the opportunity to post this message.I am truly saddened by the response of some of our brothers and sisters in Christ. Clearly mans ideas and viewpoints are always in opposition to the Lord. Our country is suffering now for the choices we are making that are contrary and opposing the The Bible, which by the way is the Word of God,inspired by he Holy Spirit and God breathed. Whether you believe it or not will not change the fact that it is the truth and the truth does not change. John14:6 Jesus said,"I AM the WAY,the TRUTH andthe LIFE, and no one comes to the father except through me." Unbelief and denial will not change anything. Hebrews13:8 "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and FOREVER." MY prayers are with you and hope you will truly search for the one and only true God, Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior of the world.
jwweath
10/13/2009 2:23 PM
Chuck, Sorry about the two posts, ran out of space.
I did want to comment on DOMA. There are many issues where something is allowed in one state but not another. DOMA is just one of them. Why is it that DOMA is the one thats so important and none of the others? Why don't we move to force every state to allow exotic animals? Some do, some have laws against it. Why don't we force every state to have helmet laws? some do, some don't.
We have to stop the Federal Govts intrusion in every facet of our lives. If, as members of a state, the majority of the people do or do not want something, that is not a Constitutional Right, then the people of that state should be allowed to vote on it and have it enacted.
If we need a Constitutional Right then lets vote to Amend the Constitution.
I did want to comment on DOMA. There are many issues where something is allowed in one state but not another. DOMA is just one of them. Why is it that DOMA is the one thats so important and none of the others? Why don't we move to force every state to allow exotic animals? Some do, some have laws against it. Why don't we force every state to have helmet laws? some do, some don't.
We have to stop the Federal Govts intrusion in every facet of our lives. If, as members of a state, the majority of the people do or do not want something, that is not a Constitutional Right, then the people of that state should be allowed to vote on it and have it enacted.
If we need a Constitutional Right then lets vote to Amend the Constitution.
jwweath
10/13/2009 2:11 PM
Chuck, Please do not tell me an "interpretation" is wrong. Thats what they are interpretations.
The issue was that the Elvis impersonator was licensed. Marriage was not the issue, the license was. The Clause was brought up for...recognizing the license.
And you are correct Marriage is not mentioned anywhere in the Constitution or any of the founding documents. This is the point of States Rights, since its not an issue that the Constitution handles the States have the right to act upon it INDIVIDUALLY. In fact a 2003 ruling by the Supreme Court on the "Full Faith and Credit Clause" allows states to set Public Policy which is what gay marriage is. Its not a right guarenteed by anything. The people of most states have voted and they want only male/female marriages. We are a Representative Republic which a lot of out Govt officials have forgotten. They are supposed to Represent their people, not their party or their religious beleifs.
And yes marriage is a religious event.
The issue was that the Elvis impersonator was licensed. Marriage was not the issue, the license was. The Clause was brought up for...recognizing the license.
And you are correct Marriage is not mentioned anywhere in the Constitution or any of the founding documents. This is the point of States Rights, since its not an issue that the Constitution handles the States have the right to act upon it INDIVIDUALLY. In fact a 2003 ruling by the Supreme Court on the "Full Faith and Credit Clause" allows states to set Public Policy which is what gay marriage is. Its not a right guarenteed by anything. The people of most states have voted and they want only male/female marriages. We are a Representative Republic which a lot of out Govt officials have forgotten. They are supposed to Represent their people, not their party or their religious beleifs.
And yes marriage is a religious event.
Chuck Anziulewicz
10/13/2009 12:23 PM
DEAR JJWEATH:
Your interpretation of the "Full Faith & Credit" clause is not quite accurate. In fact, the reason why a heterosexual marriage that is performed by an Elvis impersonator in Las Vegas is automatically honored in all 50 states.
Why should this be? After all, the word "marriage" does not occur anywhere in the Constitution of the United States. Technically there is no "right" for anyone, Gay or Straight, to get married, at least from the federal government's standpoint.
For this reason, many people have insisted that marriage laws should be a "states rights" issue, and the federal government should not get involved. But it's too late, because the federal government has already taken a vested interest in marriage for the purpose of tax law and Social Security.
Under DOMA, which Pres. Obama opposes, a Gay couple that is legally married in Iowa or Massachusetts becomes automatically UN-married if they move elsewhere. THIS violates the "Full Faith & Credit" clause.
Your interpretation of the "Full Faith & Credit" clause is not quite accurate. In fact, the reason why a heterosexual marriage that is performed by an Elvis impersonator in Las Vegas is automatically honored in all 50 states.
Why should this be? After all, the word "marriage" does not occur anywhere in the Constitution of the United States. Technically there is no "right" for anyone, Gay or Straight, to get married, at least from the federal government's standpoint.
For this reason, many people have insisted that marriage laws should be a "states rights" issue, and the federal government should not get involved. But it's too late, because the federal government has already taken a vested interest in marriage for the purpose of tax law and Social Security.
Under DOMA, which Pres. Obama opposes, a Gay couple that is legally married in Iowa or Massachusetts becomes automatically UN-married if they move elsewhere. THIS violates the "Full Faith & Credit" clause.
jwweath
10/13/2009 11:37 AM
A few things here...
The Bible is the Bible and Christians get it wrong by "interpreting" what it says. Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 are very clear. Homosexuality is an abomination. Teachings of the Bible should be based on the Bible. Our lives should be lived in accordance with the Bible.
The 14th amendment was adopted during reconstruction for Slaves rights. It promises, life, liberty, property and equal protection. No place in this amendment is marriage mentioned or even hinted. Keep the Constitution in the context as to what it was written for and the amendments the same. If you want a gay marriage amendment then have a vote for one. Don't try to force it.
The Full Faith and Credit Clause, Article IV Section 1 deals with duties States have in dealing with laws of other states. Once again it was not written about gay marriages. It was written to deal with the execution of judgements being given in one state and enforced in another. Such as extradition between states.
The Bible is the Bible and Christians get it wrong by "interpreting" what it says. Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 are very clear. Homosexuality is an abomination. Teachings of the Bible should be based on the Bible. Our lives should be lived in accordance with the Bible.
The 14th amendment was adopted during reconstruction for Slaves rights. It promises, life, liberty, property and equal protection. No place in this amendment is marriage mentioned or even hinted. Keep the Constitution in the context as to what it was written for and the amendments the same. If you want a gay marriage amendment then have a vote for one. Don't try to force it.
The Full Faith and Credit Clause, Article IV Section 1 deals with duties States have in dealing with laws of other states. Once again it was not written about gay marriages. It was written to deal with the execution of judgements being given in one state and enforced in another. Such as extradition between states.
Chuck Anziulewicz
10/13/2009 11:32 AM
DEAR BIPPIEH:
Maybe as a third grader you didn't already know this, but Christians ALREADY have all the legal support they need.
Under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, a person may not be denied employment, housing, or public accomodation because of his race or religion. In other words, you cannot be fired from your job or kicked out of your home because someone was prejudiced against Christians.
Furthermore, you will never be denied the right to serve in the military, get married, or adopt children because you are Christian and/or heterosexual. And under the First Amendment you are free to preach against Gay people all you want.
What President Obama is doing is promoting equal treatment for ALL Americans regardless of sexual orientation. So tell me: HOW is that infringing on your rights?
Maybe as a third grader you didn't already know this, but Christians ALREADY have all the legal support they need.
Under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, a person may not be denied employment, housing, or public accomodation because of his race or religion. In other words, you cannot be fired from your job or kicked out of your home because someone was prejudiced against Christians.
Furthermore, you will never be denied the right to serve in the military, get married, or adopt children because you are Christian and/or heterosexual. And under the First Amendment you are free to preach against Gay people all you want.
What President Obama is doing is promoting equal treatment for ALL Americans regardless of sexual orientation. So tell me: HOW is that infringing on your rights?
bippieh
10/13/2009 10:37 AM
I reject the counsel of our President. He is a people pleaser. He works for some people, not all people. I have not heard him sport the christian community yet. I have not heard of any special bills passed for us. Rather supporting intities agains christians. We are the threat? Okay you are allowed to believe what ever you want. You do not have to answer me or anyone else for the way you believe obviously. Pleas allow chrstians the same liberty. If we suggest homosexuality is not a correct or condusive lifestyle for our society we are participating in hate crimes? I do not see any balance in this thinking at all.
Let me ask as third grader, why do the gays get a supported opinion and the chritians do not?
Let me ask as third grader, why do the gays get a supported opinion and the chritians do not?
Chuck Anziulewicz
10/13/2009 8:54 AM
DEAR DR. MOHLER:
It is not my intention to contradict church teachings on the subject of marriage equality for Gay couples (even though those teachings vary widely between denominations).
Nor is it my intention to contradict Scripture (even though most Christians believe that Scripture is open to certain amounts of contextual interpretation).
Instead, I would prefer to approach this subject from a purely Constitutional viewpoint. And the fact remains that the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), no matter how "theologically correct" it might be, is tranparently unconstitutional, because it establishes differing sets of legal standards for Gay and Straight couples. This contradicts both the 14th Amendment and the "Full Faith & Credit" clause. I think President Obama understands this.
People with religious objections to Gay relationship are certainly welcome to conduct their own personal lives as they see fit. But to say, "Marriage is good for me but not for THEE" doesn't work.
It is not my intention to contradict church teachings on the subject of marriage equality for Gay couples (even though those teachings vary widely between denominations).
Nor is it my intention to contradict Scripture (even though most Christians believe that Scripture is open to certain amounts of contextual interpretation).
Instead, I would prefer to approach this subject from a purely Constitutional viewpoint. And the fact remains that the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), no matter how "theologically correct" it might be, is tranparently unconstitutional, because it establishes differing sets of legal standards for Gay and Straight couples. This contradicts both the 14th Amendment and the "Full Faith & Credit" clause. I think President Obama understands this.
People with religious objections to Gay relationship are certainly welcome to conduct their own personal lives as they see fit. But to say, "Marriage is good for me but not for THEE" doesn't work.
inspired2b
10/13/2009 8:41 AM
newlifeHH
Actually I am a person of faith, imagine that. Grew up in the church from the age of 5 and haven't stopped since. I did not refer to any psychologist but ok. While marriages are discussed in the bible that doesn't mean that they are NOT social contracts. Again study your bible and history of marriage they have evolved over time and they will continue to evolve.
Marriage is not a gift from God and if it is please show me, I've used this site to look for that phrase and it doesn't exist. Even stated here in Genesis 34:12 NAS "Ask me ever so much bridal payment and gift, and I will give according as you say to me; but give me the girl in marriage."
Sex is definitely not a gift because even Paul says it's better to be single (1 Cor 7:1). Hmm but ok. Thanks for the encouragement to read and after reading I agree to disagree agreeably with you and Ambient_Riot.
Equality will be had by all people and this president will see to that. As much as you might dislike him.
Actually I am a person of faith, imagine that. Grew up in the church from the age of 5 and haven't stopped since. I did not refer to any psychologist but ok. While marriages are discussed in the bible that doesn't mean that they are NOT social contracts. Again study your bible and history of marriage they have evolved over time and they will continue to evolve.
Marriage is not a gift from God and if it is please show me, I've used this site to look for that phrase and it doesn't exist. Even stated here in Genesis 34:12 NAS "Ask me ever so much bridal payment and gift, and I will give according as you say to me; but give me the girl in marriage."
Sex is definitely not a gift because even Paul says it's better to be single (1 Cor 7:1). Hmm but ok. Thanks for the encouragement to read and after reading I agree to disagree agreeably with you and Ambient_Riot.
Equality will be had by all people and this president will see to that. As much as you might dislike him.
genovese
10/13/2009 3:08 AM
America needs a resurrection from itself.
President Obama is just simply the reaction of greed and outer white-washed holiness! Republican Christians do not like this President Obama? People did vote for Barach Obama (PLEASE BE HONEST, McCain and Palin are not in office), because: 1. the quality and quanity of jobs 2. Non or little, if any healthcare,3. poverty in America and joblessness. I do not agree with the Obama worldview. His moral agenda is not mine.
However, if the Church would act like that Jesus person, then we would not have Obamas. We as a Church must rebuilding the local communities--act like Mr Jesus. He still knows the way--He however is God the Son, the Word that created all and everything! He has the Master Plan!!! He may ask something from us-submission!
So why go shopping for a solution when the blue print has been handed to us in the flesh. You believe all is lost and dead? The grave could not hold Jesus. JESUS is ALIVE!!! He has the Master Plan!!! BIBLE!
President Obama is just simply the reaction of greed and outer white-washed holiness! Republican Christians do not like this President Obama? People did vote for Barach Obama (PLEASE BE HONEST, McCain and Palin are not in office), because: 1. the quality and quanity of jobs 2. Non or little, if any healthcare,3. poverty in America and joblessness. I do not agree with the Obama worldview. His moral agenda is not mine.
However, if the Church would act like that Jesus person, then we would not have Obamas. We as a Church must rebuilding the local communities--act like Mr Jesus. He still knows the way--He however is God the Son, the Word that created all and everything! He has the Master Plan!!! He may ask something from us-submission!
So why go shopping for a solution when the blue print has been handed to us in the flesh. You believe all is lost and dead? The grave could not hold Jesus. JESUS is ALIVE!!! He has the Master Plan!!! BIBLE!
newlifeHH
10/13/2009 1:51 AM
inspired2b
Obviously, you are not a person of faith if you are referring to psychologists when looking at something as important as marriage. I don't defer to "man" when it comes to things like this. I go straight to the source. BTW.. I'm talking about God. He states specifically (in the Bible) that marriage (and sex) is a gift given by him for us to enjoy properly. He never said it was a "social union" or anything else. I have to agree with Ambient_Riot.. get out your Bible and start reading!
Obviously, you are not a person of faith if you are referring to psychologists when looking at something as important as marriage. I don't defer to "man" when it comes to things like this. I go straight to the source. BTW.. I'm talking about God. He states specifically (in the Bible) that marriage (and sex) is a gift given by him for us to enjoy properly. He never said it was a "social union" or anything else. I have to agree with Ambient_Riot.. get out your Bible and start reading!
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Regrettably, I think the President was right. I think that the nation has turned a deaf ear to God's moral code and many of our Christian leaders are a sleep. Where is the out range? Where is the call for prayer and fasting for us as a nation to repent of our sin? There isn't much outrage for what he said at the HRC; in fact, even Christians are more concerned with political power than the power of prayer. Hopefully should the Lord tarry, we can replace the ungodly policies now in office with Biblical principles, but if our intent is merely political instead of glorifying God, and if we act out of hate rather than love for those don't know the true and living God, than we are not better than our adversaries and we are not acting in the will of God.