See my previous blog posting to understand the conversation below...

ERIC: In the newspaper article, you mentioned the fact that you guys have written a 'war protest' song. It's a song protesting the activity of the war in Iraq. You stated that you made a decision not to put this song on your CD (Good Monsters) because of 'what might happen' with CD sales, concerts, Christian bookstores and retribution. Many people are curious about this, and tell us about the song.

DAN: Sure, it really was...the song is a song called 'Hero43'. It's not a finished song. There was more to not putting it on than simply the content. Some of it was simply...we didn't necessarily feel like it was up to par with the rest of the songs that we were trying to do for the "Good Monsters" project.

Aside for that; as for the content, what we were really talking about is this sense that in our current political system the evangelical right...and it seemed like President Bush, was (were) using faith as kind of this manipulative tool, saying this is our job. It certainly felt like it was moving back to the crusade. 

We felt like, OK, you're trying to justify a war using the tenets of faith. I don't believe that's an accurate or wise way to move in government. So we were somewhat protesting that use (of faith as a reason for war). And also, that sense that if your a Christian then you have to be a Republican. You have to be a conservative. I don't know...so many of my friends that are incredible believers, incredible thoughtful people that don't fall into that category.

When I was talking to the interviewer (the newspaper columnist), one of the things I was saying was people in the watching world already think that if you're a Christian you're a Republican, you're a conservative, you hate homosexuals and you're absolutely against abortion and any kind of choice for women. You also hate the environment. If you don't speak (speak up) then that's what they lump you in with. So there is a danger to that, we believe you have to say something.

(Another) problem is with the current mechanics of Christian retail and Christian radio, they are a sort of the voice boxe for the Christian culture. They are gate keepers that are conservatives and are in these places to where they don't want you to have to contend with other people's perspectives. So you kind of have to play in that field. You have to navigate that with a great deal of strategy and intelligence. Or it comes off as a rant, or it comes off like you're denouncing your faith. So it's a tricky spot to be in.

ERIC: On the title of the song, "Hero43", what does the title mean?

DAN: (nervous laugh)...uh...43rd President. So that was really just it.

ERIC: Many people say, when they go to a Christian concert they just want to hear the CD live. Don't give us the politics. Dan, what do you say to the Christian audience that says, "when we go to a 'Jars of Clay' concert (or in buying the CD) we just want to hear the album live, and we want to be encouraged." What do you say to them?

DAN: I think it's important for an artist to share what is on their heart, what their passion is about. I think it's an artist's world to look at the world and to describe it. (And) many times you can't fit that full description into a three minute song. Sometimes it takes more than that. It takes the communication on stage, it takes the content of an entire show built around a theme of justice, or of freedom. I love what we do, and I really do enjoy being in that place where there is tension.

Whenever we're in a situation where things are going incredibly well, and there is no resistance, I tend to feel more restless in those scenarios than if I was doing something to feel this 'polar push'. That when I'm comfortable. I think that is just part of this design that God has set up in this world. There's never death without beauty involved, there is never joy without sorrow. He always provides these things that are always pulling in tension with each other. When we try to create a world that is void of that kind of tension then we are not living in a world that God has created to find Him.

ERIC: Folks are saying, "They didn't put it on their album, so they are cowards - they're hypocritical in going to a newspaper columnist and talking about there thoughts, and then saying it is the Christian marketplace that kept us from releasing the song, insinuating censorship." What do you say to the charges of cowardice and hypocritical behavior? Can you speak to these charges?

DAN: Yeah, you know...yeah...I'm a coward and I am a hypocrite...on any given day. So, I'm not going to deny that that's a part of my life. So I'll agree to those charges. But there are systems in place where you have to be more tactful. The artist always has a great battle between art and commerce. I'm not going to go throw my full meaning out there.

In that interview (newspaper) he asked me...he said, "Why don't you put a song like this on a record?" I said because there are many people out there wouldn't understand this, that wouldn't look at this because of the position there are in, and believing they have figured it out. They wouldn't want to listen to it, and it would create more problems. And the rest of the things that are on that album that we feel are very important topics, would just get overshadowed by something like this. Sometimes controversy is good, but in other times it's not worth selling out the rest of what we are saying in that album for this one little song.  That's really why we did what we did with the song.

ERIC: Let me ask a couple of questions in reference to what you just said. A majority of people believe, if you put together anything that is anti-war, anti-president, then you are anti-troops and military. Is that true Dan? Please speak to family, friends and the patriotic concerns that say, if you put "Hero43" on an album you are actually being anti-troops.

DAN: See, I don't believe that. I'm very much in favor of the troops. These are guys who are following orders, so they are doing their job for their country and there's a system that breaks down if the troops start going, "I don't believe that, so I'm not going to do it." I believe that there are a lot of people in Iraq, our soldiers, that firmly believe they're there for a reason. We don't hear about those reasons. Our media is so screwed up that we don't really hear the truth about what is really going on. We are left to kind of piece it together on our own, from all of this - this influx of the mass media.

The soldiers are the one's that probably get the short end of the stick, because we don't really hear from them. We don't really hear what is going on. What are the good things about this season of trying to liberate Iraq? And, what are the bad things? What is really going on why they are there? At least for me, I find it very difficult to wade through all of the information that is thrown at me about the war, and everyone's opinion.

What I do believe, is that there is a lot of infighting in politics right now. It feels like there is a lot of justification for things that we shouldn't had been a part of. (It seems like we are) now we're trying to save face, when perhaps a better tactic would be to come clean. To say, "you're right, we were wrong in doing this". Maybe we should try to approach this a different way.

It doesn't feel any different than listening to a pastor who has been caught (in sinful error). Everything that happened with Haggard his situation was everyone kind of knew what was going on. And he knew what was going on. Still he said no, (it is not happening). Everybody knew it was true. Seems the same for our government. Everybody kind of knows, for the most part, that we were wrong to go in there, and we really need to clean it up. The reasons we went were not the real reasons that we are actually there.

I'm thoughtfully concerned about the way we are approaching the rest of the world. I'm also very aware that this war is taking up a great deal of our attention. There are other things going on in our world that we should very well be involved. Whether that's dealing with  HIV/AIDS in Africa, or poverty that is going on in all of these developing nations. You know, we are allotting a lot of finances and a lot of attention in trying to clean up a mess. Or, we are trying to cover up a mess versus actually doing some of these good things that we should be doing in the world.

ERIC: You say in the article that there is a facade. That artists and musicians, those inside of Contemporary Christan Music, are not permitted to talk about the real stuff that is going on...the real authentic struggles of live and faith. Are Christian Band's forced to be insincere because of this 'facade'?

DAN: Christian radio appeals to a certain audience. You know, there is a long history of negative repercussions for things said and things thought. It's not unknown to people within the Christian community that Christians tend to make it worse for people when they confess to things. When a Christian falls, in the public eye, it seems to be far worse. And the Christian community has, in many times, distanced themselves from this person. In a way they forced this person to find help in isolation. Which is, never really the way the Christian community is supposed to work.

I've got real struggles that I deal with. I'm a normal person...but because I'm a Christian doesn't mean that I don't lust, or I don't have issues with medicating from the problems of the world. Everybody has that, it is part of each of our stories. But we don't feel comfortable to share those things. So when it comes to writing songs about this, there is a very limited scope to what you can write about. There is a very limited amount of language that you can use when it comes to putting things on the radio.

If the Christian community is already (in this mind set) this way, when you are trying to create for Christian radio with acceptable content, it (the boundary) is even smaller. And there are definitely (known, but unspoken) boundaries, if there weren't, why don't we have more songs about sex on Christian radio? It's not like it isn't a part of the Christian  life, it is. So why don't we talk about those things? Why can't artists write about that (sex, falls and politics)? Why aren't there more love songs on Christian radio? It feels like there is enough reason to think that maybe we've got some boundaries that don't need to be there.

How will the church respond to Jars of Clay and their open, honest and brazen opinions surrounding the war effort? Better yet, how will we (you) respond with our voices, attitudes, wallets and citizenship together in Graceland? If we don't allow for differing views to be expressed inside of Graceland, then Dan is right on one point...we then accept (allow) the 'power broker gate keepers' to control the presentation of Jesus' 'gang of followers' to today's post-modern culture. I vote for tolerance (that is different than acceptance), grace and allowing 'iron to sharpen iron'.

These guys love Jesus and they have some God given challenges for all of us to consider. At the very least, they are accurate in that the culture likes to hear about Jesus, but they don't want to hear it from us! This needs to change.

Pastor Dan Kimball writes, "They like Jesus, but not the church". In the end, we are all 'jars of clay', nothing more than 'cracked pots' redeemed by Jesus' love, redemption and Abba Father's great grace and doing our best to walk righteously in Graceland.

Comments: erichogueshow@hotmail.com