Jeff:  Yes.

Dave:  What’s a good plan to handle His money His way? How do you deal with that when you dream yourself into debt, and it creates a mess for you? It sure is a painful way to learn. Hopefully we can catch a few young artists with this conversation and go, “Stop it! Don’t do it! Please, don’t do it! Don’t finance your dream!”

Jeff:  But what’s the alternative? For guys like that, they think this is the only option. They believe it because the culture tells you that, society tells you: “Make the sacrifice now, and then you can pay it off later.”

Dave:  Well, as an old guy now 15 years later, talking to young artists and running a business  that we’ve never borrowed a dime to run (with almost a hundred folks on our team, a couple hundred radio stations and with our third New York Times bestseller), I can tell you it can be done without debt. This sounds like a little Bible-thumping, but the truth is if God wants something done, the money will come – if it’s His dream. Sometimes it’s His dream, and I’ve got the wrong timing. I don’t know about anybody else, but I can go ahead of Him.

Jeff:  Absolutely. That’s the thing that happened to me. I moved to Nashville into this duplex, and this friend of ours let us live there for free. We said, “OK, we’ll live there for free for six months. By six months I should have a record deal and be a national selling artist.” But that didn’t happen. Sometimes our dream is the wrong form of the dream. I knew I was gifted musically, but I assumed certain things based on my gifts – my dream was to be a performance artist. So I tried and tried and tried, and I spent money trying to do this for five years in Nashville, trying to get a record deal but spinning my wheels going, “What is going on here?” Finally I realized I was supposed to be a worship leader. I had distorted what God had called me to do, and He was all the time saying, “Hello, Jeff, are you down there? Are you listening?” “No, I got it figured out, God. You want me to be a rock star for Jesus.” It seems like we end up taking God’s calling and turning it into something that’s more of our own. Then we get off the path, and that’s when we make decisions He’s not blessing.

Dave:  Well, you can be sure of this: If you’re going in to debt to do it, you’re out of God’s will. Oh, that was a bold statement!

Jeff:  Yeah that’s so black and white, Dave!

Dave:  Just show me once in Scripture where God used debt to provide a dream, where God used debt to protect or provide. There’s not even a single positive reference to debt. Every time it’s mentioned, it has a negative connotation. Now, you’re not going to hell for using a credit card. A credit card is not the “mark of the beast.” This is not what I’m saying. But it’s just when Proverbs says, “The borrower’s slave to the lender,” get a clue! God didn’t come to put you into slavery – He came to set the captives free. And so if He wants you to have a guitar, guess what? You’re messing up your spiritual walk when you go get one instead of letting Him give you one. He’s got a plan. You’re messing up your spiritual walk when you dive headlong into a really bad record deal.