Robert: You lack sincerity in your post. You cannot study God's word for 30 years and conclude that the Bible does not condemn homosexual behavior. If you are interested in studying this further may I suggest that you read this http://safelove.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/mel-white-response.pdf

One-Agreed. There are many paths that lead people to engage in homosexual behavior and not all of them had bad relationships with their parents and/or were sexually abused.
Two-Agreed. None of us can change if we try. God is not a rewarder of those that try, but rather those that exercise their faith. That is not to say that a person never struggles with temptation or never falls into sin, but “trying” is works and we are not saved by works but by faith.
Three-I could not disagree more with this position. We are called to be transformed by the renewing of our minds. Suggesting that a person struggling with same sex attraction should accept this as status quo is the same as saying that someone who struggles with lusting after other women (eg pornography) that is not their wife should come to a place of acceptance that this is ok alongside attraction for their spouse.

OOOPS , forgot the the E. SOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRY.

Thank you Lord for the opportunity to post this message. To Queen_7 You are right by saying we need to speak the unadulterated truth in love. A relationship between two men or two women, is a relationship the Lord will never condone or fix. No matter how much the couple say they are in love, it is clearly a lust of the flesh and purely unnatural. The Lord says in Rom. He gave them over to their depravity and they exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. God made woman for man, and that union to be strictly joined together by holy matrimony. Not a phrase we hear today very often. Marriage is holy and sacred to the Lord, between one man and one woman,until death do you part(remembering of course,in Christ there is no death) So by the grace of my Dear Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, My love and prayers to all and I pray the Good Lord reveals himself to all who are confused and have questions regarding this grave misconception of homosexuality and its ETERNAL consequences.

There is not one of us here who is without sin. That is an absolute and complete truth. Not one of us has yet been perfected. Why then are we demanding perfection from others and not ourselves. Homosexuality is a sin, sure, but so is overeating. Murder is a sin but hating your brother or thinking hateful thoughts about him is murder as well! Yes Jesus Christ will set us free from sin but that moment in time has yet to arrive for those of us still here in our sinful bodies. Grace is the fact that God still loves us, died for us and is in the process of perfecting us even with that sinful nature in our lives. Nothing pushes the unbelieving away, and discourages and kills new believers as the demand of their brothers and sisters for perfection, while status quo Christianity denies it's own sin! The Lord Jesus I see in the Bible is hardest on those who thought they had no need for His redemption at all.If we say we have no sin we lie and the truth is not in us.

ChristFollower21, I agree with you fully. The scriputres you quoted were exactly the ones I was thinking about. Basically, what the scripture in Romans explains is that homosexuality is actually a symptom of a soul that has rejected God's word. It is just one place on the slippery slope of rebellion that ends in death for those who reject God's ways. He makes this quite clear. And while most posts seem to be focusing on definitions, as the body of Christ we need to focus on uncompromisingly declaring the word of God. We do homosexuals no favors when we squabble over interpretations because one thing is certain; those who practise these things will have no part in God's Kingdom. Souls are at stake here, and time is short. Only speaking the unadulterated truth in love will enable homosexuals to truly appreciate the grace that God offers to them. Yes, their sin is abhorrent to God, and that's what makes His offer of salvation and deliverance all the more valuable. To Him be all the glory!

yvette - This is a good distinction and one I find helpful in working with people. Christians are new creatures but we are not sinless nor are we free of practical experience of our fallen natures. Ill-defined concepts often lead to confusion, discouragement and particularly in this arena, denial.

Don Juan,

I think the point is that the 85% are not necessarily living in a sinful lifestyle - they have simply not become attracted to the opposite sex and ceased to be attracted to the same sex.

We keep going round and round in this discussion over whether "gays can change" because we can't agree on the definition of the words "gay" and "change"

Gay: Means person attracted to same sex AND/OR person practicing homosexual behavior.

Change: Can refer to changing what a person chooses to DO and focus their minds on OR how they FEEL when they see an attractive person of the same sex.


YES, Gays can always change - with God's Help. God promises victory over all sin, and can give grace to people engaged in sinful actions and thought patterns to forsake those sins.

NO gays can not always change. God has NOT promised anyone that they will stopped being TEMPTED in this life, or that He will give them opposite-sex attractions. However, God has made even this kind of change for many gays.

throckmorton,

My screen name is a nickname from college, lol. I'm a former fornicator. I don't know why everyone is misunderstanding me. My point is clear. People keep saying that "sin is sin" and my Bible doesn't say that.

I don't know what is more offensive to God except for the things that the Bible names.I wasn't saying that ALL gay people were molested as children. I was merely pointing out a correlation.

As far as change goes, I don't really care what drives the behavior. My beef with the article, and a few posts, is that they take the attitude of "I tried and failed. This is who I am. Gay people are sinners just like everyone else." Sexual sins are different than others. The Bible makes this clear. I don't make a distinction between homosexuality and other sexual sins, but living in sin unrepentantly is wrong. The Bible says no one can change without God. My point is GOD CAN CHANGE ANYONE (even the other 85%)

James 2:
10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

It seems to me that we make certain sins greater than others. Homosexuality is the current one in Christendom, at one time divorce and adultery were at the top. If we really accurately judge ourselves we know that we are unable to ever have "no sin", for even the thought is sinful according to Jesus! Therefore we are ALL sinners saved by Grace and NOT ONE of us is without sin. Why then do we single out certain sins and demand perfection from those suffering from that sin, while we ourselves want our besetting sins overlooked?
Who is it that convicts us of sin---the Holy Spirit. Who is it that gives us power to change and bear the fruits of the Spirit--again the Holy Spirit! Work out your own salvation, not others.

Don Juan (it is hard not to see the irony in your screen name) - Are you suggesting that homosexuality is more offensive to God than other sins? I understand the consequence part, but I am not sure what you mean to say beyond that.

When you say you see a correlation between homosexuality and sexual abuse, are you generalizing your clinical experience to all homosexuals? Please provide your evidence for this point, if you intend to generalize beyond your clients. Also, I am sure you understand that correlation is not of necessity an indicator of cause.

Regarding change, I make a distinction between morally driven behavior change and change of inclinations. Having consulted with hundreds of same-sex attracted people and researching more, I think Jones and Yarhouse's 15% is pretty accurate. Lots more avoid homosexual behavior and some experience opposite sex behavior. The point is that ministries expecting complete change are quite discouraging to some same-sex attracted believers

Freedom91

First of all, I am not "concerned" about the gay agenda. I love gay people just like I love everyone else. Secondly, I am concerned with my own family and have an awesome marriage. Christians get divorced because they don't follow God's pattern for marriage (just as gays/fornicators/adulterers don't follow God's pattern for sex). These are SEPARATE issues.

I am a marriage counselor, so you don't have to tell me about the pain divorce causes. I am not trying to segregate homosexuality from the other sexual sins. My post was a response to those who asserted that "All sins are the same." They are not. Sexual sins are different, and I listed 1 Cor.6:18 as a proof text.

My issue is not with gay people. It is with the article and some of the responses.I disagree with the writers viewpoint and some of it is not even close to biblical.Me and my wife have gay friends and family members and we love them and pray for them.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying.