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ingrace
12/1/2008 6:39 AM
I have a problem trying to stop drinking coffee and eating chocolate, much less trying to change my sexual orientation. I know it's not a valid comparison, but you get the jest of it. I don't take my eating/drinking habits as serious as would I my sexual orientation. We, in any area of our lives, tend to say to ourselves, it's not that bad, I'm not hurting anyone and I'm healthy. What we don't think about it what's down the road, how is this going to affect my circle of friends and family, but most importantly, my witness. My witness to the lost, my witness to my brothers and sisters in Christ, and my witness to God. If we cry out to God, he hears our hearts and gives us the answer. A person cannot stop any addictive behavior without a struggle. I view homosexuality as addictive behavior, just like anything else. It doesn't sustain our bodies like food, we don't need it, we need God.
throckmorton
11/29/2008 11:07 PM
honey-b - Please show me where I suggested condoning sin.
honey-b
11/29/2008 10:38 PM
umm, I don't know where to start. It may be true that Christians tend to simply throw homosexuals into a stereotype and insist that change is easy, but HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SINFUL LIFESTYLE!The bible says clearly that homosexuality is unnatural and an abomination. Sdom and Gomorrah...need I say more!? This does not mean that Christians should not love and minister and befriend homosexuals, but they are not, in any way shape or form to condone a sinful lifestyle. Just as if your best friend, who is a devoted follower of Christ, begins sleeping with their boyfriend or girlfriend, do you just say, well, we shouldn't tell them to stop, because that would be hard on them, so let's all, as Christ's ambassadors, just learn to accept and condone this sinful behavior that hurts God and others. We, as devoted followers of Christ, should be LOVINGLY encouraging homosexuals towards a Godly lifestyle in any way we can, not just accepting their sinful choices and attitudes.
beltoftruth1
11/28/2008 2:21 PM
I think "tbigbee" said it best and I agree wholeheartedly. Dr. Throckmorton has been educated in the ways of the world. When God changes someone it's not a 15% change.

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!" -- 2 Corinthians 5:17
Furnituremaker
11/27/2008 6:52 AM
Luke 18:
9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Dr. Throckmorton I agree with your stance on sin and forgiveness. We are all sinners saved by the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. Grace that is not founded on our own righteousness but is the free Gift of God!!
throckmorton
11/27/2008 1:03 AM
Regarding I Corinthians 6:9-11. There is of course a long list of sins there including adulterers, idolaters and slanderers. Do you really think change means no more idolatry and no more harsh criticism toward other people? Jesus said that looking on a woman to lust is sin; do you think the change of I Cor 6:11 means that this heart-adultery no longer occurs?

A key is in the meaning of the word "were" in I Cor 6:11. It is in the imperfect tense, not aorist. It should be written this way: "And some of you were doing these things" referring to the list of sins in the prior 2 verses. The impact of the verse is to say, some of you were doing these things continuously but even you were then justified in Christ. It is not a verse signalling a complete and sudden change from these desires. It is however, a statement that God can save anyone, even those who at one time continually sinned in ways which dishonored God and their bodies. In practice, some change attractions and most don't.
throckmorton
11/27/2008 1:00 AM
I can appreciate that this article is a departure from the ordinary way we have been taught to view ministry to same-sex attracted evangelicals. I would like to reply to a few points made by commenters.

Regarding lilmole's comment regarding research and correlations between same-sex attractions and parental relationships, I ask this: please produce the studies you are referring to. I disagree that the research you refer to exists in representative samples of same-sex attracted people. Where these correlations exist, they are not large and there is much overlap with the straight people. What is remarkable about the research on homosexuality is how little we know and how little the existing research actually explains. And even where there are correlations, one may not attribute causal relationships to these related variables.

More in the next comment...
lilmole
11/26/2008 4:23 PM
See Narth.com
lilmole
11/26/2008 4:11 PM
This is what DR. Warren Throckmorton isn't telling you.

1) There is in fact a very high positive correlation among most anecdotal studies throughout mental health history of a poor and/or conflictual same sex parent relationship reported by SSAd folks, a significant to high positive correlation of a poor and/or conflictual opposite sex parent relationship, and a significant to high positive correlation of reported sexual abuse as well, compared to the general population.

2) Concerning the change issue, notice that the researchers, Jones and Yarhouse, of the ongoing longitudinal study have only reported into its 3rd year their findings of 15% of their SSAd subjects experiencing heterosexual inclinations. They are not finished with the study, and neither are many of the subjects involving their psychosexual growth! I believe that it is inevitable this percentage will increase. Many anecdotal studies indicate a startling consensus of about one-third, rather than 15%.
tbigbee
11/26/2008 9:21 AM
In my life experience and reading of God's Word (I am not a doctor of anything), I hear the following themes from this article for the 'gay' wanting out of their hell:
1) I was born this way
2) I cannot change
3) If I want to obey God I will be miserable my whole life

I cannot share the exact experience of these folks nor of those fighting freedom from nicotine, but I have battled other sins in my many years as a believer. Yes, we have born with a general tendency to sin, but no matter how addicting a sin, there is always a way of escape with God.
The general theme of this article feels to be contrary to scripture; freedom through Christ.

Maybe the causes are not nailed down but to deny people the hope of freedom must be its own type of sin.

Crosswalk, I advise you to screen your submissions more carefully. This one has the fingerprints of The Father of Lies.
HulkSmashLinux
11/25/2008 1:03 PM
Will Moses always be a murderer? Will Samson always be a whoremonger? Will David always be an adulterer and a murderer? Will Peter always turn his back on Jesus? Will the thief hanging on the cross always be a thief? The answer to all these questions is no, of course not. With God all things are possible. If we don't hold out the position that God can change the repentant then what is the point of Christianity?

I don't care about root cause, 6.5 billion people, 6.5 billion roots causes for sin, it's all tailor-made. One Christ, to save us all, one Holy Spirit to empower us all to change. Trust me, you can change. Don't let this pyscho-babble fool you. You can't change on your own, it may take a while (40 years Moses, 20 Years Samson) but God can and will change you because it is sin and the wages of sin is death. God will never leave you like that, he will change you. Don't get counseling from a guy like this, there is something he isn't telling you.Don't compromise with sin.
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