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chillie
6/29/2009 8:18 PM
The argument of Predestination or foreknowledge as set forth by Augustine, Luther and Calvin, being that God foreknew those who would be saved and Christ’s death was not to secure sanctification for all but only for a chosen few or the elect. That those chosen would be convicted by the Holy Spirit to repentance and be saved, also that from the point of being saved a person could not lose their salvation no matter what sin’s they may commit, that God through the Holy Spirit would before their death bring them back from a reprobate state to one of grace ensuring their salvation. While others seeking redemption would only be forced to play the role with no hope of salvation and be lost with the rest of the world. Would this really represent the true nature of God? Or does it serve the social or theological elite to promote their agenda.
The biggest difference between man, angels and animal’s is that man and angels can exercise free will. God gave Adam and Eve freedom of choice. Joshua set before the people the option to choose life or death. The point being, if salvation is based solely on Gods predetermined election of a few then what advantage is Christianity. To say that a few will be saved by Gods grace and the rest will be damned to hell through no choice of their own makes no sense when held up against most of Paul’s writings. To assume the position of once saved always saved because God loves me more than you is an insult to the life and death of our Lord. Did He (Christ) not die so that all could (indicating free will) come to repentance? Did he not die for the sins of the world?
I would suggest that Calvin spent to much time in a dark damp room more than he spent in the light of Christ. In reviewing his writings concerning arguments against other Christians he did not agree with, and how he referred to them, one has to wonder if he was saved, but I’m sure he thought himself of the Chosen Few.

waltersingingr
6/20/2009 11:39 PM
With all due respect, Jerry Vines has taken the same position that his arminian friends have adopted: you cannot be truly evangelical and believe in predestination. It is a gross misrepresentation of the doctrine. Scripture clearly teaches that God calls His elect through the Gospel message which is the power of God unto salvation. We preach to all because we do not know who the elect are. We preach to all because God has commanded it. It is His plan on how to bring the elect in.

I don't understand why believers must have their doctrine fall into categories which only make sense to them instead of reading all of Scripture and praising God that He will do what He has said He will do. What is wrong with there being an elect body? A proper understanding of the Fall reveals that we are dead from birth (Ephesians). God would be perfectly just in saving none or saving all or saving some. We are all born deserving death, there is none righteous, no not one(Romans).
chosenscribe
6/19/2009 7:58 PM
I have read "The Institutes" and Calvin does not stop us from being just as zealous for evangelism as anyone. The fact that we don't know who is chosen should spur us on. You may be talking to the next chosen one. I don't accept the accusation that predestination takes our zeal away for evangelism. After all Calvin is just reading his Bible. Read Ephesians 1 and Romans 8 and 9 and I think if you are honest you will see it clearly. Just because you don't like it doesn't change God's Word. Paul was VERY evangelistic and he was the one who penned these letters directed by God Himself.
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