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kwandongbrian
6/2/2008 8:08 AM
"Christians have a basis or a philosophical justification for their assertion that there is a God. On our worldview, we know there is a God because He has revealed Himself to us."

A problem with this point. Members of other religions also feel strongly about the truth of their faith - I will not say equally strongly as there is no way to tell. Still, as an atheist, I see no reason to to put your justification above that of a Hindu's or a Muslim's.

I want to be careful with this comparison. I approve of feeling there are things worth dying for but not worth killing for. For this reason, I feel better about the motivation of Christian Martyrs than Muslim suicide bombers but both very clearly have great faith in their religion.

Again, I am not explicitly comparing the religions, just saying that, as an atheist, hearing one group or another claim a "philosophical justification" has equal ( or no) value to me.

Using this claim in a debate is not likely to impress an atheist.
hukkster
6/2/2008 5:17 AM
It's great to hear motivation and some know how in evangelism. In my experience non Christians are quite happy to live with inherent contradictions. They won't necessarily turn from their convictions because we point out their internal and fatal flaws. If anything, they'll politely nod and avoid you like the plague next time. But if we couple this with the love of Christ, His powerful selfless love in practical ways, then we have a dynamic and powerful and hard to refuse form of evangelism. For all the philosophical views and intelligentsia of mankind, each person still yearns to be loved!

It's also great to hear the call for us to start inviting non Christians to actually make a decision, to repent and to believe. What a difference this will make to any evangelism attempt.

Great article. Keep up the good work.
evey
5/31/2008 10:55 AM
I reread your post and realize that you were referring to homosexual people that you know, perhaps my post will speak to their situation. Forgive me for not reading it clearly the first time. Thanks.
evey
5/31/2008 10:51 AM
Hi- I know firsthand that God can even take away the desire for a homosexual relationship when you truly trust in Him. I used to have a desire for many many things that I now regret, idol worship (I even had a little goddess statue), and witchcraft. These are all things that our fallen human nature thinks are good and natural since Adam's fall. The list can go on- some have the desire to lust even though they are married. The answer is let God live in your heart, and He will make the things that are not of Him go away- really. I believe there is a group "Exodus" filled with former gay now believers in Christ. Not everything that feels right is right since Adam's fall and we have sin nature. But, Christ came and took away the veil on my eyes, and gave me a new nature- once I trusted in Him. Thank you very, very much for hearing me out, bless you on your journey.
kwandongbrian
5/30/2008 7:19 PM
"Any number of questions will do. The unbeliever will have no philosophical justification to believe or know anything. He will attempt to justify his answer or knowledge apart from God, something he cannot do logically."

Please tell me why you chose the make and model of car you have - be sure to justify your answer as a believer or show how God influenced your choice. If you can't, according to Dr Dean, you are not being logical.
On the off-chance that you you actually can use religion to justify your purchase (the dealer is a devout Christian, or the like), please understand the point of the argument - is it really logical to use God to justify your carpet choice? Your Easy-boy?, Your TV? Clearly, many things can be justified without referring to God.
kwandongbrian
5/30/2008 7:12 PM
Re spanking: I think spanking has it's place but should not be used in a lazy way. The question assumes I obviously think spanking is wrong and I don't.

Salvation: means nothing to me.

Re homosexuality: Homosexuals make me uncomfortable but I feel that is at least partially my fault. I have heard Christians say homosexuality is a choice but I never chose to be heterosexual -it just happened. If I hear of a first-person account of a homosexual actively choosing his orientation, I might change my mind but I cannot now consider something beyond a person's control to be a sin.

Re Stem cell research: I would ask why Dr Dean thinks it is a bad thing. No embryos that would have otherwise lived are destroyed by the process. The embryos used in the research are collected as extras from fertility clinics - if they are not used by the researchers, they will be destroyed. Preventing stem cell research does not save lives, it takes lives and I am against that.

Out of characters.
jcchaser2001
5/30/2008 12:04 AM
kwandongbrian,

Thank you so much for your comment. It seems that the theme of this article is to provide a framework for Christians to share their faith relationally. I also think that this article challenges the Christian to step out of their “comfort zone” concerning loving our neighbors.

I would be interested to hear more from you regarding any additional assumptions or generalizations you might feel this article asserts about your worldview. Thanks again for your comments and I commend your honesty. Please feel free to email with any additional thoughts. Jcchaser2001@yahoo.com

kwandongbrian
5/29/2008 7:20 PM
Hi. I am an atheist and I would like to discuss my views. I must start by saying these views are my own - most atheists are united by being divisive.

I feel that Dr Dean has not spoken to or questioned atheists about their beliefs and opinions.I consider the arguments given in this article to be, well, wrong.

Two examples: Dr Dean says that atheists make assertions "as an absolute certainty". Yet, I am certain about little but have opinions on many subjects.
"...one cannot know for certain the sun will come up in the morning. On an evolutionary worldview, it may not." evolution is a biological theory, not astronomical so it has nothing to do with the sun.

I hope that I am of service by helping you understand those you want to convert.

Dr Dean is (literally) preaching to the choir. I hope that my criticism will allow for better arguments in the future.

I do not want to intrude. If someone responds, "yes, please" or "I'm interested", I will continue.

My best wishes to you all.
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