Pastore: One of the criticisms is, “Oh, you evangelicals, you Bible thumpers, you’re only known by what you are against—homosexually and abortion—not what you’re for.” There is a reaction to that. [What is your perspective on] that, from what you see out on the East Coast?

Wells: Well, on the East Coast, we are the most secularized region in the country. I don’t think they have evangelicals in their sights very much, but to get to the point you are making, the most important thing is that the Word of God produces godly character—not only godly talk and not only avoiding certain things, but godly character which is a very affirmative, constructive, positive, wonderful, appealing thing. Everybody knows when they have met somebody who is truly authentic and honest and straightforward and godly….

When Barna did his survey, the most important ethical distinction between secularists and those who claim to be born again … was that those who claim to be born again were a little less involved in musical piracy.

That’s it—a two percent difference.

Pastore: Maybe the critics have something when they’re saying that Christianity for the last 20 years has become too identified with the Republican Party and politics, opposing abortion and homosexuality. They say, “What happened to becoming more Christ-like?”

Wells: I would actually widen the criticism a little bit. It’s not only an identification with the Republican Party, which may be there in some cases in an unwise way. I think, much more importantly, it is an identification with our culture. We are really running scared before this culture. We are beginning to think that if we don’t adapt to it we’re going be left behind. The Christian faith is going to become obsolete. There is a kind of desperation in people like Schuller in California and Hybels and some of these other folks. There is a kind of desperation to try to make Christianity appealing. Now, what they don’t understand is that Christianity is most appealing when it offers a moral and spiritual alternative to what they can already get in culture.

I travel in the world a lot, and I have sat with pastors in the third world, the developing world, and when they look at America they’re absolutely dumbfounded. Many of them have said things to me like, “If you don’t believe in truth, and if you don’t think that Christianity calls us out to be different from the world around us, morally and spiritually, you have no reason to be a Christian anymore.”

I am with them.

Frank Pastore is host of “The Frank Pastore Show,” recognized by the National Religious Broadcasters as Talk Show Host of the Year in 2006. His program is heard on KKLA in Los Angeles 4-7 p.m. Monday through Friday. Contact Frank at Frank@kkla.com.